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Mike Arce on Why You Need to Deliver Value More Than Ever Right Now

Mike Arce

Mike Arce is the CEO and founder of Loud Rumor, a fitness marketing agency helping thousands of fitness studios around the world.

Mike is a step ahead with his insights into providing value as your business goes online and lays out some key strategies to help grow your gym during this challenging time.

He’s also released a special edition of his popular podcast The GSD Show, focusing on how studios should navigate the enormous impacts of COVID-19, with over 70 episodes recorded in just over two weeks. 

In particular, check out a recent episode he mentions on the show about the Paycheck Protection Programme here:


Kevin:How’s it going everyone? Welcome to The Fitness Founders Podcast. I’m Kevin Mannion, VP Marketing here at Glofox. This week we talk with Mike Arce, CEO and founder of Loud Rumor, a marketing consultancy having thousands of fitness studios around the world. Mike is a step ahead with his insights in virtual streaming and strategies for growing your business throughout coronavirus. It’s a masterclass in mindset, marketing and reinvention, so let’s get started. 

Mike, welcome back to the show. 

Mike:Hey! Thanks so much for being a host here and let me on. 

Kevin:Yeah, no problem at all. Obviously, we are looking through our catalog and people we wanted to talk in the industry, and I’ve been talking to a few other gym owners and your name kept popping up as someone who is a couple of steps ahead of this COVID things. Yeah, glad to have you on here. 

Mike:I appreciate it. Thank you. It’s refreshing to be not the host for once. It’s a good break. 

Kevin:Yeah. So wanted to kick straight off. I came on to your website yesterday and I saw immediately those message around COVID and coronavirus. But it seems to be a very positive message around how businesses can survive and grow. Maybe just tell us a little bit around where your head is that and how you’re maintaining that positive mindset?

Mike:Yeah. I mean, right now the mindset I have is very different than it was maybe about a week ago. About a week ago I was very concerned, maybe a week and a half ago, I was very concerned for I would say about half of the majority of the industry because I knew that some people as hard as they’ve worked they just didn’t learn enough about business in the years weeding up to it in order to be able to keep their employees engaged, their members engaged, pivot, financially manage everything. And then, in the last week a lot more optimism has come around and I feel great about the industry right now because there is so many good things happening for small business owners that the government is helping out with. The Paycheck Protection Program is absolutely incredible. It’s probably one of the best things that could have happen to a small business owner, that Paycheck Protection Program and how the whole things work. It’s not just paychecks that get covered. It’s stuff like, you know, their rent, their mortgage, interest rate on a lot of things. There’s so many things it’s actually covering which is fantastic. Then you got the EIDA, you got the relief loans. You got so many things that are available as far as information goes. Now, I feel more like majority of small business owners and majority of this industry is going to succeed. There still going to be casualties. No matter what you’re going to have small business owners who are going to fail but they are going to fail out of laziness. It’s not going to be because of the pandemic. It’s going to be out of laziness. And I say that because in order to… By the way, when I say laziness I mean extreme laziness. It’s not hard to get these loans and to get this Payment Protection Program and all these stuff Protection Program the PPP. It’s not hard. You literally just have to set an appointment with your bank, call them, give them the information they need which should be very accessible. And then after that, inside of a day or the next day you should have 2½x your average monthly payroll injected into your account like within the next day or two. It’s really easy, it’s not hard. But the problem is you’re going to have people that are going, “Ah, I don’t even know if I qualify…”, “Ah, I got to call the bank.” They’re just not going to do it. Somehow there’s still people that are not going to do it and that’s okay because what happens is somehow the economy was so good that even lazy people were able to be successful, somewhat successful, and that people that are hardworking still rose above. But now it’s going to be a filter for people that just won’t do the basic work. I think it’s great. I think we need to filter out some people that are just lazy and shouldn’t be entrepreneurs in the first place, and everybody else that should be and they put in the work, and they put the time in, and they care. Those people are going to get some incredible opportunities. They are going to come out of this thing a lot stronger than when they went in. 

Kevin:Yeah. I think it’s good motivation also and maybe a little bit of kick off the ass for some people who haven’t gone and taken a look. I supposed we’ve got these terms from all over but taking a look at what supports there are, where you are. Yeah, I think that’s probably if anyone listening first takeaway is find out what’s there and let that be your first step. 

Mike:When is this episode released by the way? 

Kevin:We’re getting them out as quick as possible so like next week, like few days.       

Mike:Okay. So everyone listening if you go to, there is an entire interview where I interviewed an expert on the PPP, how this whole program works. Step by step you’ll know exactly how it works plus notes underneath it. At this point you have no excuse, right. If you don’t get it you can’t say, “Ah, I’ve done everything.” If you didn’t go to that and you didn’t learn everything you need to learn then you didn’t do everything.

Kevin:I’ll put the link on the notes so that people can go straight through there. 

Mike:Oh, good.

Kevin:Okay. Moving on a small bit, you obviously see there is a lot of opportunity here. Lots and lots of people are starting to go online, and really what I want to dig in here now is the DOs and DONTs if you’re a few weeks into this. I think the biggest challenge most people have is creating value around these online workouts. So maybe give us your thoughts on that how people are differentiating their online workout and making it valuable or almost as valuable as what they were doing in person.      

[no audio at 5:56 – 6:29]

Mike:So the reason it’s still as valuable as what they were doing in person for the people that are doing it optimally, right, is because the members don’t have the choice of virtual or in studio. Let me break it down. Let’s say like two months ago, this fitness studio A decided, “You know what? I’m just going to go ahead and create a virtual option. Forget the studio.” Well, no. It’s nowhere near as valuable as what you had and your studio members are more than likely going to cancel and go to another studio because they want that in studio experience. They want the high 5s. A lot of people that aren’t thinking about this aren’t realizing is that they don’t have that option. Really, it’s not virtual versus in studio. That was a question. Sure. It’s definitely more valuable to have the option of going in studio. But it’s virtual or another virtual workout or no studio. Now it’s a level playing field, right? You don’t have a disadvantage here. What you ask about DOs and DONTs, what you do have to do is create a virtual platform. You do have to do that because that’s what’s going to keep your members retain. You do have to do that. What you don’t have to do is find ways to make it exactly the same way that it was in person. I hear a lot of people are renting out their equipments and saying, “Hey, come rent your equipment.” There is a lot of disadvantages to that. Number one, it’s very to spread the disease through that because on metal the coronavirus lives longer and you’re passing stuff back and forth. But the main reason is because you don’t have enough of the same equipment for everyone to get the same experience. So you’re actually hurting your brand. What you do want to do, you do want to treat this part of your business like you treat any part of your business outside of a pandemic. Meaning, whatever you have today might be good for today and it was better than yesterday, but what you have next week means should be better than today. I’ve already seen people improve their audio experience by doing research and figuring it out. I see people improve their experience and let people know when the new workouts are coming in and how it is going to work. Improve their experience by bringing in instructors from other studios. Basically, be a business owner, right? When you start a business you can’t just sell the same thing over and over without improving it. Otherwise, you’re going to extinct like Blockbuster, Toys“R”Us, and taxis, all that. Orange Theory, they’ve continued to make advancements. You look at their studio today versus four years ago. I mean, now, they got the Apple watch that collects their heartrate. They’ve got sort of emails that come out with their data and their metrics. So you are still a business owner. I don’t care if it’s a pandemic. You are not on vacation from being a business owner. You are still a business owner so your virtual product has to continuously evolve and your offerings would have to be better every time as well.      

Kevin:Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I think in summary what you are saying is two weeks ago, two months ago a subscription for online training might have been $10 a month or something but your in studio experience was very different to that. Whereas, now people are at home and they have the option of either talking to you and doing an online class with you who they know and who they trust and makes them accountable, and there is a premium we pay for that.   

Mike:Yeah. We’ve actually surveyed members of the studios. You want to know some interesting data that we found out? 

Kevin:I do.

Mike:Okay, so 10/10. We interviewed more than 10 but I’m just giving you so it’s 100%. A 100% of the people that we interviewed have preferred a live workout, like through Zoom, with their studio over like a P90X, or Beachbody, or something similar to that. They preferred it. When asked, “Why?” They said, “Because I love the fact that I know the coach can still watch me and correct my form.” And if I stop in a certain rep they could be like, “Come on, Mike.” By name, use my name and say, “Come on, Mike. Keep going. You got more in you.” So 10/10, a 100% of people. So everybody that’s worry like Beachbody has got this amazing videos, and they are professional, they are $9 a month. Guess what? 10/10 people we surveyed prefer your live on Zoom over that. Now, the next interesting stat. This was 94%, so wasn’t 100%. 94% of people prefer to watch a recorded live workout over a Beachbody. Meaning, you are not even being watched. You are not being even talked to at the moment. They prefer going through a workout that was pre-recorded live because it still feels like that. It still feels like they are talking to you. Now, the third interesting one is that I guess a lot of people thought that prerecorded is going to be better. I know a lot of people go to studios and shot a bunch of workouts, a bunch of professional workouts before they were mandated to close. What we’ve actually learned was that people prefer the live, raw workout over the pre-recorded live workouts. So definitely do lives a 100%. Definitely upload a recording of those lives a 100%. Don’t worry about doing the professional versions of it because this is working as well. But make sure that you are 100% getting legal advice, and make sure you had the proper paperwork. There’s just these things you have to make sure you’ve got. Number one, you have to make sure that you have video consent forms for your members for online because I see a lot of people breaking the law. They are taking screenshots, clips of their workout, and they are putting it on Facebook publicly and those members didn’t sign the video consent form for that. Another thing is make sure their kids are not in there. A lot of people are encouraging their kids to be use as weights, and when they squat their kids on their back. Your kids are not supposed to be in that video either. And anybody looking at your kids that could be another thing, so don’t get your kids in their either. And the last is we’re going through a pandemic right now. Because we are going through a pandemic, and that’s respiratory, you have to have another waiver that goes out to your members or just add it into your agreement that basically lets them know that if they are feeling any respiratory issues, difficult breathing throughout this workout to stop working out and make sure that you consult with a doctor.        

Kevin:Yeah. Some of these things I suppose seem obvious like don’t use your kid as a weight and then other ones are more serious.       

Mike:Because your kid has his own right, and your kid may not want this video in the future.  

Kevin:Yeah. We’ve seen all those photos on LinkedIn, and all these people working watching Zoom meetings, everything and Instagram. Got to think about that.  

Mike:You’re putting your business at risk, right. And your job as a business owner especially as you grow and you got employees is you reduce risk and increase opportunity. 

Kevin:Yeah, that’s really useful. Now, what other things are you seeing that people are building into their online programs that are creating value? Is it extra one-to-one sessions, nutrition? What are you seeing that’s working? 

Mike:A lot of really good stuff. So, yeah, definitely nutrition. And here is something that for every studio that’s listening, I want you to pay attention. This is super important. If you have people joining your virtual workouts this week, and last week, and maybe next week, and in two weeks from now, three weeks from now which everyone is still going to be doing virtual. We just found out until April 30th we’re still doing this, right, so at least until April 30th. Probably we go month after. But what’s going to happen is in two to three weeks your members are going to cancel with you because they are gaining weight. They joined your workout, and here’s they are going to say, “I don’t know if I like the workout. I joined and actually I gained weight since I started doing it.” Here’s why. Because you are not the only new variable in their life. There’s two big variables that you have to make sure you are paying attention to because if you don’t coach your clients on this. They will cancel because they’ve gained weight not because your program sucks. So, number one, nutrition. People are eating differently when they are in lockdown and quarantine. They don’t have that routine. They are snacking more often. Snacks are right there. They’ll eat off their kid’s plate. Their kids didn’t finish their meal. They will eat those extra calories and finish it off before throwing it in the garbage. They will snack more. They will eat later at night. It’s different. We are noticing that caloric intake during this pandemic is definitely increasing. By the way, most snacks are not great calories. So that’s one. Number two, and this is one most people are going to think of, the average working American gets 8,000+ steps per day. Now at home they are going to…

Kevin:Not anymore.

Mike:Yeah. They may find themselves getting around 2,000 steps per day. So now at the end of a week they’ve gotten 42,000 less steps per week. At the end of two weeks they’ve gotten 80,000 less steps. That alone, that difference can cause them to gain weight. Even though they are working out with you 3, 4 days a week if they are eating that way and they are not getting their steps in the way they used to then those two variables will offset yours and they will still get worst results. What we’ve encouraged our fitness studio owners to do is make sure you’re not only coaching your members on how to eat better or at least be consistent of what they’ve been doing, but also go back into their phone and look at their health fact to see how many steps they were taking per day before and aim for at least that or more. If it means going around the block, if it means walking around your house. Whatever it means just aim for at least what you are getting if not more in steps. 

Kevin:Yeah. It’s a real reminder of why people buy memberships in the first place to get those results. You’ve got to think that you got all these people now, they are sitting at home, they are not moving around a lot, and if you can guide them through that then you are worth the money.

Mike:Yeah, 100%. They are also doing stuff like Bingo for referrals. If you take certain actions and they have like an online Bingo where you get a square, and once you get all the squares you get some T-shirt or something like that. That’s kind of cool. Referral programs are really great. One of the things I’ve recommended to my studios… I’m an advertiser. I love advertising. I believe in it and I think right now every single person on the planet I can should be advertising because your ad costs are lower than ever. And I’ll go into that in a minute if you like. But I will tell you is that as much as I recommend advertising. What I would actually recommend even more than hiring someone like me, I recommend you do both. But what I recommend even more than that is going all in on your referrals. All in. Because the challenge before, there were few challenges, if I ask you to refer somebody to me before. Your friends, number one, may not have the schedule that accommodates with my fitness studio. Now that’s not an issue. Everyone is at home, right? Number two, your friends may not live near the studio like you do where it’s convenient for them to join your studio over a competitor. So now, it doesn’t matter because location… Where do you live? Where are you? 

Kevin:I live in the east coast of Ireland, in Dublin. 

Mike:You’re in Ireland. Guess what? You can join the same fitness studio Mike is part of right now. 


Mike:For the same price you will do the same workouts. Now, I can say, “Hey, look, we’ll put out a philanthropic campaign. Here is the way this works.” Let’s say I have 250 members. I’m going to double that and I’m going to say, “Hey, all of you guys, right now obviously this world is going through a lot of stress and we want to do as much good in the world as much as we possibly can throughout all of this.” So we can use all of your help. Right now, everybody, because it’s online can come in and do a free workout with us. For every friend, family member, co-worker, whatever, anybody you know that you can get to come in a free workout with us and completes a free workout, we will actually feed a child for an entire month through the Feed My Starving Children program. All they’ve got to do is a free workout. They don’t have to join. They don’t have to sign up, nothing like that. All they’ve got to do is a free workout. And if you guys can each find two people, that’s it, just two people per person. We will be able to hit our goal of 500 people going to the workouts and 500 children fed for the entire month before April 30th. One more thing too, the top three people that refer the most people, the top three, we’re going to actually feed your children for an additional month on top of that. Now, here is the cool thing. It only costs $7 in change to feed a child for an entire month with Feed My Starving Children program. Let’s call it $8 just to play it safe. If you have 500 people that go into your online free workout you would pay $4,000 in order to get 500 people in your program. That’s not $8 per lead. That’s not $8 per book. That’s $8 per show of good referral from a member and they save about the entire workout, $8. Now here is what’s even better. That $4,000 that you spend on that referral, that philanthropic campaign is actually cheaper than spending $4,000 with an advertising campaign because the ride-off on charitable donations is way better than a ride-off with the advertising. That $4,000 is actually cheaper than you actually think. So now you’ve done good. You’ve got your people a part of something that’s great for culture, great for community. You can celebrate wins together. You’ve got 500 people coming in for a good cause. Normally, people convert 90% of their referrals. But if you fail on 90% of your referrals and only convert 10%, you still got 50 members in. And those 50 members cost you $4,000. But you probably, if you are charging $100 a month, we recommend you do at least. You paid $5,000 though. Already you paid it off plus made a grant and you have that money for next month too. And you go run a whole other campaign and that doesn’t include your other ad campaigns that you are running. 

Kevin:Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I think in summary, people’s locations maybe shoot, a lot of consumers have two things nowadays. They have a lot of time in their hands and if they haven’t lost a job they’ve got money. If you add a little imagination into that there’s all sort of ways that you can do referral programs and figure out ways to get them into your classes. That’s really good. Okay, that’s cool because I wouldn’t maybe have thought of referrals as the first thing now but it makes a lot of sense.  

Mike:It will be the most important thing for you is your referrals, and you just still do everything else. These are all logs in the fire. But you should 100% do referrals, and with the Paycheck Protection Program you have no reason to let go of employees even if you don’t need them. You use to need them so you got to repurpose them. Repurpose your people and have them help by giving them a goal to get to this 500.     

Kevin:Yeah, that make sense. Moving on a little bit into your real area of expertise which is around ads, and spending, and getting marketing return on investment. What is changing? At a very high level what should people be doing and what should they be doing differently than maybe a few weeks ago. 

Mike:Well, definitely run ads today. Start right away. I prefer you started ads two weeks ago. Here’s why. Internet usage is up by 30%. The reason that’s important is because Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, all of that, all those advertisements that you pay for as an advertiser or as a business owner that’s running ads, you’re in a bidding system. Meaning you are bidding for those ad placements. With Facebook and Instagram for example, if you’re flicking through and you’re scrolling through your feed, every five post is going to be an ad, right. Every five post is going to be an ad. Your ad can only be seen so many times because you’re not the only person advertising. And you may think, oh yeah there’s other fitness studios too. But it is not just fitness studios. It’s anyone that’s targeting the people you’re targeting. So nail salons, hair salons, restaurants, vacation, travel, all these stuff, right? All these people ordinarily would be competing against you and that’s why the cost per lead has risen much, much higher in the last four years because more and more people are beginning to advertise. Now, pandemic, what happened was a lot of people just froze up and stopped everything. And so what we saw was the average cost per lead dropped down from an average of $8 to an average of $1. Okay. Now, here is why that’s amazing. People are going to be afraid to sell this because they are not going to close this wall and rightfully sell. You’re not going to close this wall for three reasons. Number one, you weren’t that good at selling in the first place and so now you’re selling over the phone instead of in person. It’s even harder. Number two, you’re selling online training versus in person training. And number three, it’s a pandemic and so also harder. People are more conservative. You got three things step against you. But what this means is you can still afford to convert your leads at 8x less conversion rate than you were before and still end up with the same customer acquisition cost. Most business owners, small business owners, they have it twisted. They focus on cost per lead and they spend way too much time thinking of cost per lead. Real entrepreneurs, if you ever watched like The Profit or Shark Tank, they never care what your cost per lead is. They care what it cost to acquire customer. Your CAC, Customer Acquisition Cost. That’s all they care about. So that means if you are paying $8 per lead before and converting at 20% of your leads, right, converting at 20%. Now you are paying a dollar per lead, meaning cost 8x less, that means now you could close leads at 2.5%. A 2.5% closing ration instead of 20% and still end out with the same customer acquisition cost. It still the same thing, right?

Kevin:Yeah. I think doing the changes there for people to understand is they probably have to do more calls, way to more leads. But it’s there if you do the work. 

Mike:But you’ve got people on your team that aren’t being utilized as much as they used to. You are not running as many classes, so you got instructors, you got front desk. You have all these people that can help you. You got to repurpose your people. The reason I say today, and I prefer two weeks ago you started is because the lead cost is rising back up. And there’s three reasons as to still why that’s happening. Number one, advertisers, probably like a lot of the listeners today whether they’ve already done it or now they’re thinking about doing it, they started to relax and accept what’s happening is more than a 14-day thing and they’ve got to get back out there and sell. They realized that, okay I got a market I got to sell. Now, people that were on the platform are starting to return to the platform. Cost per lead now on average is $4. It’s already 4x higher than it was two week ago but it’s still half the cost of what it was four weeks ago. Okay. But here is what is also happening that a lot of people aren’t considering. Over the last few weeks all those companies that love to find opportunity in crisis, all those companies have worked hard to create programs, and products, and things that now…

Kevin:Stuff to buy. 

Mike:Exactly. Now, they are selling online. So things that weren’t online two weeks ago are now being sold at the most ridiculously hard level ever because they know that this is a pandemic. This product in software or information only works, sells well during a pandemic so we’ve got to go all in and spend as much as we can now. If you guys still want to be able to get great customer leads, still really great. It’s still going to be really great for the next few months and then eventually level out again. But what an amazing opportunity to get twice or three times as many leads for the same money, all that branding, all those impressions, that visibility. And if you’re not doing it and your competitor is you’re not exactly doing the right thing here. 

Kevin:Yeah. I think the key to it all is if you understand that key to it all is having something you can sell around about what you’re selling it for before. 

Mike:Right, yeah. And that’s improving the product, improving the way it looks, feels, sounds, and so that’s why joining community of other fitness studios and others… We are like a thousand plus fitness studios in our members only group and every day we are sharing like 30 different posts of what they are doing, how they are doing it, how they are making audio better, visual better, experience better. Don’t do this battle alone. Find other fitness studios, network with them, get a big group, and then just start bouncing ideas off them because 50 heads, or 200 heads are definitely better than one. 

Kevin:Yeah, that’s great. That’s a great point. I think also going back to one of your first points if the results are the same people will pay. So figure out how to get those results even if the formula has changed. 

Mike:My wife works out normally 3 to 4 days a week. She loves group fitness so she goes to Jabz Boxing. She’s workout 7x in the last eight days because it’s easier for her. Scheduling is tough and what to do with the kids. Now, the kids can just be in the kitchen hanging out and she is in the other room. She can still see that and she’s going through her workout, and she’s got to see people. She is working out more now than she was before. 

Kevin:Yeah. No, that’s a good point. Okay, so I think there are some great insights there into both packaging up your offering and also promoting it so that’s awesome. Let’s just finally touch on the future. Let’s call it three months, six months’ time, things are back to normal, people having experimenting with their online platforms and their paid content and their live workouts. What is the fitness business going to look like? How much of what we do is going to be online? How much of it is going to be in person? 

Mike:Things will be back to normal until probably Spring of 2021. By far by the year things are back to normal. 

Kevin:Normal, normal, yeah.

Mike:Things will be opening back up again. Let’s say they open back up in three to five months, right? If things open back up people are so going to be skeptical and uncomfortable going out there because it’s still out there. It’s just less and they felt is more manageable and they come up with maybe vaccines, or more of those machines that they need, whatever it is. So people are not going to be like all in on going to a gym. But you are going to have a lot of people that can’t wait to get out of the house because they are stir-crazy right now. However, the future is bright because you are going to get the best of both worlds. You are going to get the people that are stir-crazy and want to get to the studio. But you are also going to have this new revenue stream that you never had before with online options and people that can workout at your studio online virtually that aren’t within a 5-mile radius. Like you in Ireland, right, or anybody that’s in Australia, or Canada, or anywhere. Doesn’t matter. You’re still going to have people that have fallen in love and got a routine and want to stick with it. Yeah, it maybe only generates $5000, $6000, $7000 a month but that’s an amazing extra $60000, $70000 a year that your business is earning, and it’s got a very low cost associated with it. 

Kevin:Yeah. Okay. I think your message is it’s here to stay. You’re going to have a hybrid business, and use this time to get it right out of necessity to survive now, and use this time to figure out how to structure it. 

Mike:Yeah. The future will never look like the past. You’re going to have a different future. So you either preparing for what the future will look like or you’re going to be the person that complains that the past is not here anymore and you’re going to blame everything in the world as to why it happened. But in reality all we did was push the future 5-10 years faster. It was going to happen anyway. 

Kevin:It was on the way, yeah. Okay, this is absolutely a masterclass. Before we go just tell me what’s the biggest lesson you’ve learned in the last three weeks? 

Mike:Pivoting fast is important. The importance of engaging with your members, staying in touch with them. You know, we did a really good job of engaging and staying with our members and giving information we put out. At the date of this episode, as of right now, we put out 70 podcasts episodes in a matter of two weeks and it is a new podcast that’s just for fitness studios on surviving the coronavirus and how to succeed throughout it. So that’s And then like you saw, we changed the whole website. We did our campaigns. We got on TV. Right now it’s easy for fitness studios to get on TV because they are looking for good news around health and wellness business. It’s very easy. So just realizing the importance of finding where the opportunities are as quickly as possible, making a list and executing. All the time that you can spend complaining. You’re saying, what I’m going to do and all that. You know, Tony Robbins has one of the best quotes out there. It’s one of my favorite phrases which is “Change your question, change your life.” If you say, “Why this is happening? How could this happen to me? How do I’m supposed to do?”, versus, “What could I do right now that will help me keep more of my members?”, “What could I do right now that will help me gain more business?”, “What could I do right now that will help me create a better virtual platform than everybody else out there that’s going to build one too?” If you change your question, you can change your life.          

Kevin:Okay. We’ll leave there at Tony. Okay, Mike, before we go just tell people how they find you and how they get in touch. 

Mike:They can go to That’s the easiest way. They can also go to, and my handle on all platforms is just my first name, last name and live, so @mikearcelive.

Kevin:Okay. Alright, Mike Arce from Loud Rumor, thank you very much for coming on the show. 

Mike:Thanks, man. I appreciate it.     

Kevin:Thank you!

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