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Jack Thomas on Pricing and Packaging Your Online Offering

Jack Thomas

Jack Thomas is the owner of BASE, a three location fitness studio based in Bangkok, Thailand. He is originally from the UK and moved to Bangkok over 15 years ago after various roles within the fitness industry he started BASE three years ago. When he arrived in the country the fitness scene was nearly non-existent and in his time in Thailand, he has seen it grow rapidly. 

In 2018 BASE won Asia’s Gym of the Year and Jack has a wealth of knowledge on how to run a fitness business successfully. He was a previous guest on the show and he also hosts the excellent Asia Fitness Business Podcast, which has some great into the Asian fitness industry and the industry as a whole. 

In this episode, Jack tells us he how has transitioned his business online during COVID-19, the challenges that came with this, and gives some great tips on how to price and package your online offering.

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Episode Link 

This episode of The Fitness Founders Podcast can be found on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and anywhere you get your podcasts.

4 Key Takeaways From This Episode

1. Positive Messaging is Important

When COVID-19 became serious in Thailand the first step Jack took was to communicate with his members completely and transparently. This was especially important as he closed down his studios and moved his entire business online. According to Jack, there was some panic and negativity with a lot of people worried about the future. 

One of the core values of BASE is positivity and Jack wanted to make his studio a centre of positivity for his members. He also wanted to make sure there were clear lines of communication between him and his members so any of their questions could be answered. The lesson is simple. Be clear. Be positive. Be available. 

2. Think Carefully About Your Next Steps 

Because things are moving so quickly that it’s very easy to make a knee jerk decision on what to do next. For most studios like BASE, the next logical steps is to move services online so their members can continue their workouts from home. Therefore Jack tried to let his members know as quickly as he could about what would be happening with the business and their memberships. 

However, while you need to move quickly to assure members, you also need to think carefully about what you can actually deliver. This is a balancing act as Jack well knows, and he got his team of 50 together to strategize on what they could provide for their members. What you deliver must be sustainable, not over promise and not devalue your brand in any way. 

3. Don’t Sacrifice The Quality of Your Brand

Careful planning will give you a better chance to keep constituency with your brand. A lot of gyms and studios quickly jumped onto live streaming platforms like Facebook and Instagram Live and likely shot their workouts on an iPhone. It’s understandable, given the uncertainty at the moment. For a premium brand like BASE though, Jack feels that that may not be the best course of action. 

He launched the platform BASE Anywhere, which allows members to access a range of high quality workouts, live streamed sessions, nutrition coaching and much more. The idea is to come out of this in a strong position not only financially, but brand wise also. If you are a premium brand, it’s worth investing in keeping this consistent throughout this time.

4. Charging for a Service Means Providing an Excellent Service

Do you charge for online workouts? 

This is the question on the minds of a lot of gym owners at the moment. The answer is really another question; how will you survive if you don’t? According to Jack, there really needs to be a shift in your mindset. People may be hesitant to charge for their services but this the wrong play. 

Remember though, if you are going to charge for a service you need to deliver . Now more than ever, people need your services so charge for it and deliver a high quality service that will allow them to reach their fitness goals. As Jack makes clear, your business will exist when this is over if your charge.If you don’t it simply won’t be.


Kevin:How’s it going everyone? Welcome to The Fitness Founders Podcast. I’m Kevin Mannion, VP Marketing here at Glofox. This week we talk to Jack Thomas who owns a three location BASE in Bangkok. He is also the founder of Fitness Business Asia Podcast. Jack has transformed his business to fully online during COVID-19. He talks about delivering more value when your business goes remote, keeping your marketing communications clear and positive, and how to price and package your online offering. It’s solid advice from a successful gym so let’s get started.

Jack Thomas, welcome back to the show. 

Jack:Thank you. Yeah, absolute pleasure to be back on the podcast. Thanks for having me again. 

Kevin:Great to have you. You are based out of Bangkok. You’ve got a BASE Fitness over there. Tell us, like, it’s been crazy let’s call it four weeks, just give us at a high level what’s happened to your business in the last four weeks before we dig in to some of the tips for everybody else.

Jack:Yeah. It’s certainly being an unprecedented four weeks like nothing that I’ve ever experienced in my professional life I think. We were just talking before we went online that’s four weeks ago things are actually seem quite okay here. We had a busy studio, clients didn’t seem particularly bothered about what’s happening. I just had a conversation with my landlord where he was asking if we needed any help and we actually said to him, “No, I think we’re doing quite okay. The moment we’ll be in touch if and when we do need any help and assistance from you.” Within 7 days we were closed by government order. I think that it was quite clear then that it wasn’t something that was going to be resolved in the 12 days that we were forced to be closed. I knew straight away this is going to be at least 2-3 months. 

I guess after an initial shock you just have to spring into gear. We’ve got a team of 50 people at BASE so I couldn’t sit around and feel sorry for myself for too long. I really had to jump into action, so myself and the management team, we got together straight away and just started working on how we can keep BASE afloat. Of course, we want to keep it financially strong during this time. But also really trying to look at the opportunities that come from a time like this and make sure that whenever we can reopen we do come out strong, we do come out as a premium brand, and we also come out as a brand that really helps people. I think we have an obligation to do that. Right now, people are at home, they don’t know what to do, they are bored, they are scared. It’s more important than ever to be healthy and strong. It wasn’t just about keeping the business strong. It really was about serving our members as well. So after a brief shock I would say, we kicked into gear at BASE and we just started working overdrive on what we could do to really make sure that we keep up running strong in people’s mind and keep doing the right thing.

Honestly, it’s been the busiest 4 weeks I’ve had maybe in my professional career I think. A mixture of emotions but I do feel actually really excited for some of the opportunities that could come out of this. I just feel happy that we can still provide a platform for our members and new members as well actually to stay fit and strong. 

Kevin:Nice, nice. So the topic I’d love us to cover today at a high level is keeping cash coming into the business because this is what most people who are running gyms and studios need to know or need to learn about. All of this is in the context of going online. But it’s really about how staying going through the hard times here while your business is rapidly transforming. 

Well start off by maybe just tell us about the early days, some of those initial conversations you had with your customers as you were starting in your online journey, and how you maybe I suppose got them interested or kept their confidence that you were going to react to what they needed in your business. 

Jack:I think the first thing we had to do was just completely and transparently communicate to all of our customers exactly what was going on, exactly what would happen to their packages, I think was an important one as well. And just make sure that we were really keeping those channels of communication open. For many of our staff now it’s a quiet time. Our front desk staff are helping with some administrative stuff but they don’t have a huge amount to do. Coaches are trying to get work where they can but it’s a quieter time for them. Our marketing team just went into overdrive from day one. We’ve got a small marketing team here of myself and two others that help out. And we’ve just been working absolutely non-stop to make sure that we get our positive messages to the clients, make sure they know exactly what’s going on with their packages, exactly what we have coming up for them, what we have planned, deciding on what services we were going to provide to the clients as quick as possible. Because it was pretty much an overnight decision. 

You know, 24 hours before we close we had a sense that it might happen. But if someone had told me it would happen 24 hours later just wouldn’t have believed them. So clients were, well, first probably wondering what’s happening to my package. Secondly, wondering how I’m going to stay fit and healthy during this time. I can’t go to the gym anymore. It was on us really to react quickly. Let them what we are doing. Let them know what plans we have for them. So we really have to get something out very quickly to them. We did that really through all channels straight away, so through email, social media of course, personal connections, coaches calling back clients as much as we could just to really let them know this is what we have planned, this is how we are going to keep you going with some quick options that we could give to clients and then some deeper, higher quality, longer term options which we’ve been working on since then.            

Kevin:It’s definitely a bouncing act because you don’t know what you’re going to do yourself over the next couple of days yet you’re trying to get a clear and positive message out to your clients.   

Jack:Yeah, and you don’t want to make any jerk reactions and just suddenly decided doing this. Okay, we are going to do online classes tomorrow. We are going to have lives every single day. You know, you got to think a little bit carefully about what you’re doing. Make sure they are sustainable. Make sure you don’t overpromise something that’s going to be difficult to do. Also, you’re making sure you’re making the right decisions that are going to actually help the business and help clients as well. Though you got to be quite fast with your messaging, you’ve also got to be careful with your messaging as well. That’s really why we got the whole management team together to really brainstorm ideas, really thrust them out, dissect them all and just work out what was going to be the best way to move forward. 

It’s now a month in. We’ve definitely changed some of those things and some ideas have evolved. But I think it was important to just really sort of get a proper strategy with everyone’s thoughts involved on how we could move forward.

Kevin:That’s a great takeaway. I think we just move on a small bit. Obviously, you may be had some ideas in the back of your mind about going online someday. I’d love to hear some of the challenges you encountered going online, creating your live streaming, and how you’ve approached that.   

Jack:Yeah. I will go on to the products that we we’ve introduced and how we’ve done that. I think for us as well it’s worth sharing with your listeners just some of the things that we consider at the beginning. One was just to really keep messages positive, as positive as possible. You know, people were scared, people were worried. There was a lot of gossip and negativity and bad news everywhere. So we really wanted to make sure that BASE was a center of positivity. And that’s been one of our values since day one – we are a center of positivity. It’s important to continue that with something like this happening. So all of the messages that we put out every day was always with a smile, always positive, always making sure that it kind of made people’s day a little bit better rather than a little bit worst. And that was a really big thing for us.

The second thing, was we didn’t want to ask for any charity, or “Hey, would you mind continue paying your membership fees?”, or anything like that. I don’t want to judge gyms or studios that did do that. I did see quite a few doing it. Obviously, I don’t know their particular financial situation and they might have very small tight knit communities. But it was just something that we didn’t want to do for our brand. We wanted to continue to provide value. We did have clients reaching out just saying like, “Hey, is there any way I can support? Is there any way I can help?” But I felt it was important for us in what we do to provide them with something great. If they want to support they can jump unto that platform. 

That’s really kind of how we chose to do it. And again, that’s not judging any gym that chose to do it differently. I understand that everyone’s situation is different. Then like I said, just going to update the clients and just keep them updated on everything that was happening. 

I’ll talk you through a little bit about the services that we introduced. The first thing that was just relatively easy one was online one-to-one coaching. We do a lot of one-to-one personal training in our locations. It just made sense to offer that online quickly, so Skype sessions, FaceTime, Zoom could do one-to-one sessions in real time online. And so what we did at BASE was to create a special package for that which was a little bit cheaper. We also wanted to pay the coach quite a lot more than their normal rate because they are not using our facilities. They certainly needed our help at this time. Our number one priority for all of these was really making sure that our team was okay. Our second priority was making sure that our members were okay. We felt that if we could do those two things the business would still be okay. Really, every decision we made was can we support the team, how can we support the team, and then how can we support our members. So we set up the one-to-one coaching. That started going quite well. You know, greatly reduced sessions to our normal locations of course. I think for clients it was a difficult transition for some of them. But that’s really peaked up in the last few weeks as people have realized they can’t now go to BASE and do that personal training. 

In line with that, we introduced monthly programming, so that was a cheaper more affordable option. A set amount per month. A coach would program for them, check in with them regularly. There was unlimited message support plus one call every two weeks to go through how they are doing with the program. For some clients that maybe couldn’t quite get their head around one-to-one coaching online, they quite like the idea of that. So that proved quite popular as well. Again, we gave actually 100% of that money to our coaches just to help support them at this difficult time. 

We had nutritional offering which was similar to the monthly programing as a monthly payment to help with their nutrition, food, dietary analysis, all of that kind of stuff. Then in the background we started working really hard on a group class training platform. The initial offerings took care of our personal training, and that’s got busier in the last two weeks. One the sidelines we were working for group classes. We started off with some high quality lives. By high quality I mean we got a proper video camera for it, we got a proper microphone. We did one a week so we could really make it a great workout. Really built that online for the socials getting people to share it, tag their friends to join, and that really built up a lot of hype so got a load of people coming on. While we were doing those weekly lives we started building our online training platform which we chose to do through our Facebook group. So we were filming a lot of workouts in the studio to get ready to launch. I think that was about two weeks after we closed we launch the online platform BASE Anywhere. Yeah, we can dig a bit deeper into that but that’s been a real big success for us and that’s really helped to keep the company financially strong and also keep the members fit and strong as well. 

Kevin:Nice, nice. And before, I suppose, we talk about who you price this. Yeah, let’s delve a little bit about BASE Anywhere and what the offering is. 

Jack:The offering for BASE Anywhere is 16 workouts per month, so that’s 4 a week, which are pre-recorded workouts. So they are very high quality. We got graphics on the screen, we’ve got the coach’s name up there, technique points at the bottom, how to do the movements. It really does look very slick, very professional. And that’s something which was important to us. We wanted a really professional offering that really represented BASE well. I don’t believe that it’s great for a premium brand to just get out an iPhone, suddenly go live on Instagram, and just get someone to do bodyweight squats and mountain climbers. There’s so many people doing that now and I think it’s important to really put something out that’s going to represent brand in a good way and a strong way. So that was important to us. 16 high quality workouts per week. In addition to that we’re going to have extra webinars that we do so we have a nutritionist who is going to come on next week and talk about how to eat right during this time. We’ve now thrown in some extra Zoom workout as well, so those are real time sessions. That’s free as part of the BASE Anywhere platform but we are actually charging additionally for that if you’re not part of BASE Anywhere. 

So making it pretty cheap we’re also allowing those classes to be on class pass so that should bring in some additional revenue. They have shifted to basically 100% online livestream platform now. Hopefully, that would bring in some extra revenue as well. And then in the group, being in Facebook group, has really provided the advantage that we can do post. We can do a lot of things that really create engagement and really kind of help to get the community going. That will be a little difficult on a platform where we just hosted the videos and people watch them. So that’s why we chose to do it on Facebook. We believe that we’ve really provided a lot of value in BASE Anywhere. The initial feedback has been great. That has been exciting really creating something new from scratch.

Kevin:Nice. What’s your thoughts on the dynamics of the live, like a Zoom workout? How do you structure those? How much interaction is there between the trainer and the clients. How do you work those? 

Jack:Yeah. It was very different experience actually and we had really good feedbacks. So the live of course is live so everybody that’s watching that knows that you’re doing the workout with them at the same time but you can see what they are doing. And the pre-recorded workouts are good because the quality is very, very high. We put a lot into it. Looks very attractive and very easy to follow and people quite like that they can do it at any time. The Zoom workouts are really cool because… I mean, I took out at our first Zoom workout and I could see exactly what people were doing which was really cool. And their names are just there in the bottom corner of that screen. Some of these people I didn’t even know but I will be like, “Johnny, great work. Keep it going. Last 10 seconds.” It was actually really a lot of fun and the feedback was absolutely awesome on that. Once we did that and we had such a good feedback, we decided that we could add that as an extra feature for our paid platform, and then we were also confident that we could charge for that as well.       

Kevin:That’s been annoying when the trainer forgets your name but now there is no excuse. 

Jack:Exactly. You can have up to a hundred people I think in the standard Zoom package. Yeah, even with a hundred people you can still call them out and still give them feedback on technique as well which is really cool, and people seems to like that. 

Kevin:Okay, let’s move on. This is probably the topic I’m most fascinated with and it’s the difference between free and paid, what to give away and what to charge for. I do think there’s a lot of businesses out there that are probably charging too little or afraid to charge. What do you think on this topic? 

Jack:Yeah, lots to say on this topic for sure. I’ve spoken to some gym owners which have continued to charge their normal rate and they’ve done everything through Zoom. It’s difficult for us to do that because we’re a paid per session business. You know, something like Barry’s Bootcamp or Soul Cycle, we’re the higher end of the market. You know, a monthly membership with us is about £150 so that just wouldn’t really fly I think. I don’t think our clients would really go for that. Again, for me if we ask then to continue paying their package for some Zoom workouts it would kind of feel a little bit like charity. I think some of the smaller like park bootcamps have been able to do that and there wasn’t really much of a drop in quality and they could do it through Zoom that’s great. I know a few guys who have really done well out of that. For us we couldn’t do that because we charge per session so we had a lower priced service, so it was £50 per month that works out as opposed to £150 per month for access into BASE Anywhere.  

The way we structure the initial offering which just works really, really for us is to have the first month at half price and then the second month would kick into a full price membership. To do that you do need the payment facilities to do that. You do need the payment gate that will allow you to structure offers like that, so that enables us to do coupon codes. We also work with influencers so we gave them a unique code and gave them commission plus access to the group. Influencers love doing that because they need content anyway they like working out and they could make a bit of extra commission. Another little thing we did was we gave coaches their own unique code and we gave them a commission every time someone signed up using their code. So they then were putting out on social media, they were telling their clients about it. Some of those guys make quite good money actually by telling all of their clients about it. So another little thing that we did to help generate some more excitement. We were quite transparent. We said, “Hey, if you want to support any coaches at this time sue their code and you can put a little bit in their pocket.” And I think clients quite like that as well.   

I think anyone who is worried about charging now really needs to shift their mindset. I mean, I’ve heard a few people say that they feel it’s capitalizing on a difficult time to charge at this time. But the trouble of giving free workout is it ends up being like the ones I said, you know, iPhone just comes out, doing mountain climbers and bodyweight squats like everyone else which honestly isn’t really going to help people all that much. I would say much better way to frame it is charge someone for it and deliver much more for it. It really puts you in a different mindset. You immediately have an obligation to provide a great level of service once you are charging for it. You can have coaches calling them if need be every couple of weeks. You can send them personalized programs. There’s just so much that you can do when you charge for it. I would say we really have an obligation to give those paid services and make sure that they are really good. The reality is that people need our services now as an industry probably more than ever to be honest with you. People need to be kept fit and strong, so charge something for it. It will keep your business afloat. Your business will still be there at the end of this. The clients can actually come back. That might not be the case if you don’t charge for it. But also it means that the quality can be so much higher. I’d say provide some free content, some free value. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. But definitely offer a higher level of value, higher level of service for a paid service. They are not only going to make your business survive but you can really give them the service that they actually need. 

Kevin:I think the thing that is so important to do is just thinking about how you can deliver more whether it is that one-to-one aspect of things, and whether that is actual training, or whether it’s communication and engagement. I think the trap a lot of maybe people are finding is their finding that customers are trial hopping between all these different free content. But I guess it’s up to you to figure out how that added value can be delivered in order that you can keep people and they are not tend to just go off and look at the next free online class. 

Jack:Yeah. I think the reality is there is a lot of free content out there who are giving great workouts. But to be quite frankly, you can go on YouTube and also get great workouts. You need to think what are you delivering beyond that workout. For a start, you’ve already got a client base let’s say 100, 200, 300 people. They would much rather do a workout with coach Jack who they know and who they train with at BASE rather than some random person on YouTube. So if you already have that advantage then what can you offer beyond that, or you can ask them a question on Facebook and then once they respond you can actually have a back and forth with them. Well, they can’t do that with some random YouTube influencer. You can reach out to them personally. You can give them a call or you can send them an email, or you can have email workflows so that when they sign up they get automated emails for x amount of days. There’s so much that you can do to really double down on that connection that you already have with your clients and the community aspect. 

And so if a new client comes in you might not have that existing connection but you might have that community and you’ve got to really, really double down on that. That’s the advantage that you have over Joe Wicks let’s say who is putting out good content, it’s free. Why would they go to you over him? You need to give them a reason for that. 

Kevin:I think that local aspect is really what it’s all about. Okay, so, that’s very helpful. Hopefully should have stir people’s mindsets in the direction of charging for premium content and premium value. 

You did mention sales and marketing and we’ve spoken to a number of people over the last few weeks in the podcast here. The theory is a little bit out on how much gyms and studios can grow now. So what’s your thoughts for growth and acquiring new customers?    

Jack:I think growth is ambitious at this time. No doubt about that. I mean, if you can grow your business at this time you’re going to do very well in this game. We’re providing financial support for every single one of our staff, right, which I know not every gym is doing. For us, our goal is to just flat line our finances. If we can grow, if we can make money during this time we would be super happy. But we’re trying to flat line or maybe not lose so much so we can continue to support the team regardless of how long this goes on for. Getting new clients, it is possible. I think we’d have to go back to what I’ve just said, it’s all about the personal connection that you have with people so that’s why you really need to double down on your current client base. It’s going to be time to get new clients for sure. Brand new people that aren’t members of gyms will be looking all over the place. The way that you can do that I think is by referrals perhaps from people who are in your current group would be one possibility. Really doubling down on the community aspects. So if you have a really strong community in Cork in Ireland or wherever you might be, a really strong community there, you might be able to bring someone in if they can see that that’s a really good community. You can do things like posting videos of people who’ve done it at home of them training as part of the program, testimonials of your current clients that are happy with the service that they are receiving. 

And that’s actually very easy to do. So in the Facebook group that we have we’re getting a lot of great feedback. What we’ll do next week is say, “Okay guys, we’re going to put out some ads to try and get some more people into this community. Can you just leave us underneath a couple of things that you love about the BASE Anywhere platform?” And then we’ll just screenshot a ton of those and we’ve got loads of ad content then. So if someone is kind of looking through a local community they might actually take a chance on trying out your platform. If you have the right introductory offer, so for us, you know the half price first month. We can do referral codes to our community so that they can get those out as well. Those are few ideas on how it can be done but for sure it is going to be tough and it is going to be difficult. 

In summary, double down on the clients you have at the moment and then double down on that community aspects I think. 

Kevin:You’re always going to lose that few here and there no matter how good you were doing. And if you can keep a small number coming in at the front then just aim for that flat and sustain your cash flow. That’s a huge outcome if you can do that.

Jack:I think that has to be the goal for most businesses now. I mean, anyone is looking to grow fantastic. And of course, there are businesses that are well positioned now to grow I think. For fitness and for gyms that aren’t ordinarily doing online, I think if you can flat line your finances, you know, you’re golden. I mean, in theory if you can do that then you can ride this out regardless of how long it goes on for. I’ll be frank with you. The initial goal was to flat line. I’ve got some hope now that we can be profitable. The initial success of BASE Anywhere seeing how many people have come on in the first few days and then thinking more about the things that we discuss such as trying to pull in referrals from those people and build the community. I do actually have some hope now that maybe we might be able to make a little bit of money. We’ll see. 

Kevin:I think people are learning the skills they are going to need when things get a bit busier and they have this online capability, and they can use it as a way for acquiring new customers. So maybe you’re learning now the skills you’re going to need in six months’ time when things start to grow again. 

Jack;Yeah. Well, I think one way to think about this is it’s a challenge, right? Business is never easy. We all know that right. It’s a difficult place to be. There is ups and downs. This is a massive down. This is a hugely difficult time for our industry. One way to look at this, if we can see this is a challenge, if we can rise to the challenge and we can come out of this with our business intact, we’re going to be stronger because of it. You know, I’ve personally learned so much in the last month about crisis management, about PR, about marketing, about building an online platform, about engaging people online. I’ve learned and developed so much. Even if we had lost a bit of money during this time or flat lined I’ve developed professionally. I know our coaches have developed professionally having to do this online. They’ve definitely learned a lot about coaching someone either on Skype, or being in front of a video camera rather than being in front of 20 people. Yeah, I think that’s a good way to look at this. Business is never easy. This is definitely one of the tough times. If you can get through this, you can really get through anything. So focus on doing the right things, get through it, and you’ll be stronger because of it. 

Kevin:Yeah, I think that’s a great lesson. Okay, and just last question from me then is what is the biggest lesson you’ve learned in the last four weeks?

Jack:Wow. Biggest lesson I’ve learned. The biggest lesson I’ve learned is if you’ve created something truly special. If you have a brand that people really buy into then you can survive and ride out this tough time. People have looked to BASE to get them through this time because of all the goodwill that we built, because of how they felt when they came to BASE every single time. They kind of looked to us to rise up and to help them through it. We’ve benefited from that feeling and that goodwill and really sort of felt the obligation to help these people and that has helped us get through it. I think if we hadn’t built up so much goodwill with our clients and we hadn’t built up such a strong brand, I think we’d be in serious, serious trouble now. So when the times were good we did a lot of the right things, we built good strong relationships with our clients, and that has helped us to ride out these more difficult times. I think if you can double down and do everything right during the good times it helps in these tough times.

Kevin:Okay. Before we go, just tell us about your podcast, and your gym, and how people can get in touch.   

Jack:Yeah, gym is BASE. We are based in Bangkok. We have three locations now. The podcast that I ran is called the Fitness Business Asia Podcast. We put out information and interviews to help people in the fitness industry in Asia but really beyond that. The last three episodes we put out have all been on how to get through this current times. Not so much about the online training. We will be putting out some content on that soon but it’s more been about mindset things that you need to really use to get through this time, positives that can come out of this, marketing tips, and then general survival tips really for getting through such difficult times such as these. Whether you are in Asia or whether you’re anywhere else in the world there is definitely a lot of good information that we put out. Yeah, Fitness Business Asia. You can search anywhere for that, Google, Spotify, Apple podcast, and it will pop up.

Kevin:Nice. Okay, well, thanks. Stay safe and thanks for coming on the show.

Jack:Yeah, you too.

Kevin:Thank you. 

Jack:Yeah, my pleasure. I’ll speak to you soon. Cheers. 

Kevin:Thank you.

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